Comments for Mobilizing Florida churches in the fight against HIV/AIDS at http://www.sfltimes.com , comment 1 to 7 out of 7 comments http://www.sfltimes.com Mon, 06 Sep 2010 02:16:37 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.2 http://www.sfltimes.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3861&Itemid=188#comment-379 What is the name of the church you teach Sunday school at? Do you believe the Bible's definition of sexual immorality includes homosexuality? You state that sex before marriage is not explicitly said to be a sin in the Bible, but does your interpretation of the Bible consider it to be a sin? Have you read 1 Cor. 7:1-9? How do you understand it? Do you think in that context, it is referring to sex outside of marriage? What do you think "fornication" means in these passages? - Mike Fri, 05 Mar 2010 01:32:19 +0100 http://www.sfltimes.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3861&Itemid=188#comment-369 I am relieved to hear you say that it would be great if everyone waited until marriage - we agree. I did, but even if I did not, I can still see the wisdom in doing so. Can't you? It is a form of prevention. But I am disappointed in your lack of enthusiasm for promoting it. Of course not everyone will follow it, just as everyone will not follow the advice to get tested or use "protection." But we tell them anyway. The moral values of Christianity are universal and it is our duty as Christians to promote them to all, regardless of the results. Don't you agree? We should be enthusiastic about all aspects of fighting HIV, including abstinence until marriage. Finally, you claim that HIV originally got out of hand because it was treated as a moral, not a public health issue. Not exactly true. It got out of hand because people were fornicating and being sexually promiscuous. They ignored the Bible. Is it not true that there is very little HIV in the Islamic countries such as Saudi Arabia where fornication is illegal? - Common Sense Fri, 26 Feb 2010 01:22:05 +0100 http://www.sfltimes.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3861&Itemid=188#comment-368 I apologize for apparently offending and I appreciate your feedback to help enlighten me. I suppose it is easier to lash out against people on these comment pages than to have a civilized conversation. Mike, I am afraid your assessment of me from 3 paragraphs here is incorrect. I am a very spiritual person, married 20 years, have children, and teach Sunday School at my church. I would appreciate you focusing on my comments in this forum rather than personal attacks. That being written... No matter one's faith or belief system, prevention of disease is a moral and ethical issue. Not everyone is Christian or follows the teachings of the Christian Bible. I was simply trying to point out that while it would be great if everyone waited until marriage to have sex, it does not happen. If all wars on the planet stopped, our brothers and sisters would not be oppressed or killed, unfortunately, for all of Christ Jesus' teachings on peace, we still have wars. Therefore, since the "ideal" is not likely to be met, it is important to have prevention measures in place. Therefore, HIV education and testing in conjunction with the church is imperative. As far as morality, ethics and science, I agree that there needs to be ethics in medicine. That is not what I am referring to, Common Sense. Whether I feel someone should smoke or not, is my opinion (or belief) which I have no right to impose or force on another. As a medical professional I would inform someone of the dangers and possible adverse outcomes of smoking (i.e., the medical facts, e.g., lung cancer, emphysema, etc). If a physician smokes, is he/she immoral or unethical? I don't believe so. Smoking is not inherently "right" or "wrong", it does not make one a "bad" person, and they are breaking no laws (although I do understand that just because something is legal, does not make it moral). If that physician then tells a patient not to smoke, he/she may be considered hypocritical, again different issue. The HIV epidemic originally got out of hand because it was treated as an issue of morality, rather than a public health issue. Once we realized that it is not who one was, but what one did that put them at risk for HIV, we were able to educate with facts, and provide testing so that people knew their status. There are many ideas regarding sex and marriage in many religions (Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Zoroastanism, Wicca, etc.) I stand by what I wrote, there are no words in the Bible that "precisely" refer to sex before marriage. There is debate among the meanings of words in the original language of the Bible, and I appreciate your comments, Mike. The Greek word "porneia" actually can by defined as describing an invalid marriage between close family members. This surely fits your definition of "fornication", however many cultures allow such marriages. Again, please take these comments as they are intended, for intelligent discourse, not for lashing out at other posters because they do not agree with your ideology. Thanks. - Peter Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:40:34 +0100 http://www.sfltimes.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3861&Itemid=188#comment-367 One question for Peter: Should people smoke cigarettes? If you say no, then you believe morality has a role in discussing medical and science issues. Medicine and science provide facts. From those facts we make moral decisions. The HIV epidemic illustrates the wisdom of following the Bible - and the consequences of not. - Common Sense Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:36:29 +0100 http://www.sfltimes.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3861&Itemid=188#comment-366 The Hebrew word is zanah and the Greek word is porneia. The Greek word specifically includes sexual activity outside of Scriptural marriage. This is common knowledge, so I am not sure why you are disputing it. You admit that adultery is immoral but question if premarital sex is - strange. The context of all uses of porneia make it clear that only sex with you marriage mate is permitted. That is one of the benefits of marriage. Read Hebrews 13:4 which says that both adultery and fornication defile the marriage bed. But your biggest mistake is your desire to separate morality from medicine and science. Morality and ethics should always play a role in everything we do as humans. If it did not, our society would be in chaos. And facts often vindicate one view of morality over another. I noticed that you did not deny the fact that if everyone followed the Bible's moral code, HIV would be practically nonexistent. The bottom line is Peter, you do not appear to be a spiritual person and therefore you probably fornicate or have done so and hence you feel uncomfortable hearing someone else say that it is wrong. One day you will mature and realize the Bible was right all along. Once you have children you will doubley realize how dangerous and foolish sex outside of marriage is. It is creating massive social problems in our schools and communities. - Mike Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:27:45 +0100 http://www.sfltimes.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3861&Itemid=188#comment-365 There is no Hebrew or Greek word used in the Bible that precisely refers to sex before marriage. The Bible undeniably condemns adultery and sexual immorality, but is sex before marriage considered sexually immoral? There are several references in Paul's letter to the Corinthians as well as Acts and other books that speak of sexual immorality, but the term is not clearly defined. Also, there are people who are married and still become infected with HIV, whether their partner is unfaithful or is sharing intravenous or intramuscular drugs, or was infected prior to marriage and was unaware because they had never been tested. I think we enter a slippery slope when we place morality on issues of medicine or science. You are free to believe as you choose, but others are free to believe as they choose, and then there are the medical facts. HIV is a virus that is transmitted from person to person through various known transmission routes. There are ways to avoid infection that are very effective and ways that are to some extent less effective. Getting an HIV test is a great option for anyone who may be considering having sex, whether on their wedding night or before. - Peter Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:58:10 +0100 http://www.sfltimes.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3861&Itemid=188#comment-338 Your efforts sound noble. Education and testing is important, as is prevention. Does your prevention model emphasize the biblical admonition to reserve sexual activitity for married couples? I ask because all to often, religious groups abandon the Bible's directives on sexual activity, when if fact they really are the solution. If everyone in Broward County waited until marriage, how many HIV cases would we have? So the more that wait, the lower the HIV rate will be. Of coure the challenge is getting people to follow such prevention methods. From that perspective, we are all in the same boat. - Mike Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:51:27 +0100